What is your take on the incel situation?

Discussion in 'Politics and Debate' started by apple;shampoo, May 21, 2018.

  1. apple;shampoo

    apple;shampoo Newbie

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    For those of you who don't know, an incel is a person who has never had sex or hasn't had a relationship or sexual encounter in a very long time even though they tried. Incel means involuntarily celibate. Within this group of people there are subsections: mentalcels, volcels and blackpilled. Mentalcels are people who are involuntarily celibate and/or unable to find a relationship because they suffer from mental illness and volcels are people who for whatever reason choose to abstain from sex and relationships (for example, a conservative virgin who would like to marry someone who's a virgin and can't find that person and hates the world for it). Those who are blackpilled are people who are neither of the previously mentioned, but hold the same misogynistic beliefs as the incel. All these people are part of the same community (incels).

    It took me a while to understand this and I don't think I have understood it completely, but it seems these people think that good looking men downgrade and have sex with not so good looking women, then these women because of that make their standards too high, when they were supposed to be throwing themselves at the incel (a person who's on the same looks parameter as they are). So because the dating market is so competitive, these men are forced into celibacy and a never-ending cycle of rejection. They also believe that women only care about looks, that they have been lied to and that being nice and kind gets them nowhere if they are not good looking. They go as far as thinking women won't even befriend a guy who's ugly.

    An interesting thing to note is that a survey released by the biggest incel forum on the internet revealed that the vast majority of its members are of ethnic background. Which explains why most of them believe all it takes is for you to be white to get laid. Also most of them reportedly suffer from body dysmorphia (they don't have a real perception of how they look when they look in the mirror, they think they look worse than they actually do). When it comes down to it, incels would like the world to see them as oppressed by society and by women and have been committing femicide and other acts of violence as an act of protest for their celibacy, like Elliot Rodger or the Toronto killer. They want some sort of sexual redistribution for equality.

    Professor of psychology Jordan B. Peterson said in a NY times article:
    "Violent attacks are what happens when men do not have partners and society needs to work to make sure those men are married. He was angry at God because women were rejecting him,” Mr. Peterson says of the Toronto killer. “The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges. Half the men fail to procreate. And no one cares about the men who fail.”

    Interviewer laughs because she finds the statement absurd.

    "You are laughing about them. That's because you are female. Preventing hordes of single men from violence is necessary for the stability of society. Enforced monogamy helps neutralize that. In situations there's too much mate choice, a small percentage of the guys have hyper access to women, and so they don't form relationships with women, and they hate that."

    So, I'm asking men about this because as a woman, I have no idea what it's like to be a man. For me it's very hard to empathize with this. I do realize there are certain social pressures when it comes to sex men have that are different from womens and can be very psychologically damaging.

    So do these men really have a point? Can sex deprivation make you violent? Do you think this is an issue to be taken seriously? Do you agree that men are being forced into celibacy because of other men having "hyper access" to women? Have you had any issues that could relate to the incels?
     

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  2. Squire72

    Squire72 Moberator

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    It’s terrifying that anyone thinks they’re entitled to anything from other people. Nobody is, their attitudes and entitlement are probably the most prevalent reason they’re celibate, because almost nobody wants a douchebag who expects to be gratified without putting in the effort or earning someone’s interest.
     
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  3. apple;shampoo

    apple;shampoo Newbie

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    I think porn has a lot to do with the way they think. They witness this misogynist roleplay in porn and end up believing that what they see there is reality and that's how women behave. I don't know if you understand what I mean, but I think this fucks with their minds and they get things twisted. I think the sense of entitlement comes from there.
     
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  4. Squire72

    Squire72 Moberator

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    The lack of understanding that being sexually active is ideally the result of building relationships, rather than just someone giving you special treatment... I’m sure porn plays a part, not the whole story, but doubtful it helps
     
  5. mcpon14

    mcpon14 Bleeds Nexopia

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    I don't like their views of women. I don't understand why they would hold those views.
     
  6. Squire72

    Squire72 Moberator

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    They think women are objects, rather than people
     
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  7. Lucian Hodoboc

    Lucian Hodoboc Member

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    Sexual encounters outside of marriage are sinful. As for sexual intercourse within marriage, The Bible advises us to:

    "1 Now for the matters you wrote about: "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman." 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. 8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion." (1 Corinthians 7:1-9)
     
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  8. Squire72

    Squire72 Moberator

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    Sadly the bible is full of shit

    It essentially considers women property, or cattle to be used as a man pleases

    That also contributes to the problem
     
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  9. The Reverend

    The Reverend Addict

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    Yes, this exactly. The Bible is our best guide for living a life pleasing to our Creator.
     
  10. Squire72

    Squire72 Moberator

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  11. The Reverend

    The Reverend Addict

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  12. Squire72

    Squire72 Moberator

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    Does the bible not tell you women are property?

    That conflicts with the law... everywhere but Saudi Arabia, maybe you’d feel more comfortable in a dictatorship where you have extra rights because you own a penis
     
  13. The Reverend

    The Reverend Addict

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    The Bible tells me God's truth. Checkmate, atheist.
     
  14. Squire72

    Squire72 Moberator

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    The bible is the word of men who thought all kinds of weird and wonky things - humans were pretty stupid two thousand years ago

    You’re an excellent throwback to those times
     
  15. Lucian Hodoboc

    Lucian Hodoboc Member

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    No, it does not. It says that they are to be subordinate to men.
     
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  16. Karlijn

    Karlijn Guest

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    The bible says a lot of other stupid things too
     
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  17. Lucian Hodoboc

    Lucian Hodoboc Member

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    I mean, you guys choose to experience a life sprinkled with suffering while being convinced that eternal nothingness awaits you, so I'm not sure if you're entitled to call other people stupid...
     
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  18. The Reverend

    The Reverend Addict

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    That burn can only be bested by hellfire!

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. apple;shampoo

    apple;shampoo Newbie

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    I think the reason why many have those views is because they have been rejected so many times. Women is the one thing they covet that they can't have. They are a source of pleasure, affection, love. It's easier to blame women and hate them, than to accept ownership for not being able to win our affection.
    I mean, imagine how sad those guys lives are. If at like 30 you never been kissed, you never been on a date, you never had sex, you were bombarded constantly with thoughts you are not a man, you are not worthy, etc because masculinity is measured by sexual conquests. Looking around and feeling like the whole world knows and thinks you are this huge loser. Must be kind of hard. They are bitter and blame women for that. That's why they have those views. I think the views came after, not before they found themselves in this situation. I think the incel forums encourage them to have those views. Kind of like if you were anorexic and went on a pro-ana forum, you'd be encouraged to think food is disgusting, food is the source of your problems, not yourself, you know?
     
  20. apple;shampoo

    apple;shampoo Newbie

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    *women are the one thing they covet they can't have
     

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